Comments on: My First Semester Shock, or Seminarians Without Chests http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/ practical wisdom to help seminary students avoid burnout and finish well Thu, 19 Apr 2012 22:19:36 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3 By: Alisa http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-640 Alisa Thu, 09 Dec 2010 04:33:59 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-640 I am so glad you posted this! Yes, I have been having the same experience that you did. I am finding out there are a lot of people at Seminary here that are not Godly people. One went so far as to say that God was nature to her. I thought Seminary was going to be filled with God loving Christions or other as this is a Mennonite Seminary, but the plain truth is, it is not. I am so glad you posted this! Yes, I have been having the same experience that you did. I am finding out there are a lot of people at Seminary here that are not Godly people. One went so far as to say that God was nature to her. I thought Seminary was going to be filled with God loving Christions or other as this is a Mennonite Seminary, but the plain truth is, it is not.

]]> By: Mark http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-617 Mark Sun, 19 Sep 2010 20:21:39 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-617 Thanks, Dr. Blomberg, for your remarks. Not many people bring the kind of perspective you can on this subject. I wonder if the split between academic and devotional comes out of evangelical church culture that has a history of of feeling-oriented exhortation, apart from careful thought. The life of the mind hasn't been neglected only in church, but it has been there, so what's left except the appeal to feeling. My sense is that the church is recovering the proper wedded-ness of careful study and warm-hearted worship, but back when I was in seminary, we weren't in quite the same place. Prayerfully this will become less of a problem as the church recovers the value of good thinking and study. Thanks, Dr. Blomberg, for your remarks. Not many people bring the kind of perspective you can on this subject.

I wonder if the split between academic and devotional comes out of evangelical church culture that has a history of of feeling-oriented exhortation, apart from careful thought. The life of the mind hasn’t been neglected only in church, but it has been there, so what’s left except the appeal to feeling.

My sense is that the church is recovering the proper wedded-ness of careful study and warm-hearted worship, but back when I was in seminary, we weren’t in quite the same place. Prayerfully this will become less of a problem as the church recovers the value of good thinking and study.

]]> By: Craig Blomberg http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-616 Craig Blomberg Sun, 19 Sep 2010 16:11:30 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-616 As someone with nine years of formal theological education and twenty-eight dishing it out, I know this conversation occurs annually all over the world. I wish I could address it wherever it occurs! But since my daily google alert for "Denver Seminary" brought me to this site, I'll do so here. Two comments I try always to make: (1) What often is involved in Western Gentile "devotional" reading--largely involving the presence of certain kinds of feelings and the absence of others--has little basis in the ancient Jewish/biblical practice of Scripture study, which was almost always corporate (at least, in the yeshiva model, involving a pair of individuals in conversation with each other about the text, if not a full-fledged small group--cf. Acts 17:11). (2) I do believe in and encourage private Bible reading/study and prayer as well but am always baffled as to why there must be a bifurcation between "academic" and "devotional" study. The more one learns rules for proper interpretation (and it's not, in most instances, nearly as hard as many in this thread suggest), the more one can read Scripture responsibly and ask God to apply it to your personal lives, and the more one can take time after academic study to reflect on the personal significance of what one has just analyzed. It doesn't even add very many minutes if one is serious about it. In short, there never really is any reason for the odd lament I frequently hear by students in my New Testament courses--"I just haven't had much time for Bible study this semester." Whatever do they think they are doing when they read Scripture for my classes! It really boils down to an issue of heart attitude and commitment, not one of ability or time. As someone with nine years of formal theological education and twenty-eight dishing it out, I know this conversation occurs annually all over the world. I wish I could address it wherever it occurs! But since my daily google alert for “Denver Seminary” brought me to this site, I’ll do so here. Two comments I try always to make: (1) What often is involved in Western Gentile “devotional” reading–largely involving the presence of certain kinds of feelings and the absence of others–has little basis in the ancient Jewish/biblical practice of Scripture study, which was almost always corporate (at least, in the yeshiva model, involving a pair of individuals in conversation with each other about the text, if not a full-fledged small group–cf. Acts 17:11). (2) I do believe in and encourage private Bible reading/study and prayer as well but am always baffled as to why there must be a bifurcation between “academic” and “devotional” study. The more one learns rules for proper interpretation (and it’s not, in most instances, nearly as hard as many in this thread suggest), the more one can read Scripture responsibly and ask God to apply it to your personal lives, and the more one can take time after academic study to reflect on the personal significance of what one has just analyzed. It doesn’t even add very many minutes if one is serious about it. In short, there never really is any reason for the odd lament I frequently hear by students in my New Testament courses–”I just haven’t had much time for Bible study this semester.” Whatever do they think they are doing when they read Scripture for my classes! It really boils down to an issue of heart attitude and commitment, not one of ability or time.

]]> By: Dan http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-599 Dan Wed, 07 Jul 2010 17:44:26 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-599 Hi Mark, I, too am a MDiv student at Denver Seminary, and I am relatively new as I am only entering into my second semester. Already I can feel my devotional time slipping away, while the desire to just study God and not talk to Him rears its ugly head. I have a few Seminary friends (both graduates and newbies like me) who cannot help but see The Bible as a textbook. That, or they cannot help but over-analyze Scripture instead of just reading it. Being a relatively new Christian, I still find that reading The Bible for enjoyment is very difficult for me - it almost always feels like work, and it almost always feels a bit...well...dry if I'm honest. I'm not looking to Seminary to fill my devotional time, but I am keenly aware of the dangers of being a student first and a son of God second. Thanks for your words. -Dan Cross Hi Mark,

I, too am a MDiv student at Denver Seminary, and I am relatively new as I am only entering into my second semester. Already I can feel my devotional time slipping away, while the desire to just study God and not talk to Him rears its ugly head.

I have a few Seminary friends (both graduates and newbies like me) who cannot help but see The Bible as a textbook. That, or they cannot help but over-analyze Scripture instead of just reading it.

Being a relatively new Christian, I still find that reading The Bible for enjoyment is very difficult for me – it almost always feels like work, and it almost always feels a bit…well…dry if I’m honest. I’m not looking to Seminary to fill my devotional time, but I am keenly aware of the dangers of being a student first and a son of God second.

Thanks for your words.

-Dan Cross

]]> By: Tom Ryberg http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-582 Tom Ryberg Mon, 03 May 2010 15:10:05 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-582 Thanks for this encouragement. It's an Enlightenment-era fantasy that we can intellectualize ourselves into our faiths. Don't get me wrong: good theology is REALLY IMPORTANT, because bad theology is terribly destructive. But at some point, it is necessary to put down the books and say, "Lord I believe; help my unbelief." <i><blockquote>I agreed with him about the challenges of proper interpretation, but then I asked him, “You mean to tell me that Farmer Jones out in East Texas can’t sit down with his Bible and his morning coffee, pray that God will speak to him through it and expect reliably to hear from God?” He said, “No, that’s not possible.” He went on to say that God could speak just as well through the “funnies” in the newspaper as he could through the Bible.</blockquote></i> Wow indeed. It is true that going to the Bible with good intentions does not always result hearing or understanding the Word of God, and I agree with him that God can certainly Speak to anyone through any medium. But, obviously, any medium would have to include...THE BIBLE. With or without "acceptable" exegesis. Sheesh! Thanks for this encouragement. It’s an Enlightenment-era fantasy that we can intellectualize ourselves into our faiths. Don’t get me wrong: good theology is REALLY IMPORTANT, because bad theology is terribly destructive. But at some point, it is necessary to put down the books and say, “Lord I believe; help my unbelief.”


I agreed with him about the challenges of proper interpretation, but then I asked him, “You mean to tell me that Farmer Jones out in East Texas can’t sit down with his Bible and his morning coffee, pray that God will speak to him through it and expect reliably to hear from God?”

He said, “No, that’s not possible.”

He went on to say that God could speak just as well through the “funnies” in the newspaper as he could through the Bible.

Wow indeed. It is true that going to the Bible with good intentions does not always result hearing or understanding the Word of God, and I agree with him that God can certainly Speak to anyone through any medium. But, obviously, any medium would have to include…THE BIBLE. With or without “acceptable” exegesis. Sheesh!

]]> By: steve http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-581 steve Mon, 03 May 2010 13:55:06 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-581 No, the "Golden Rule #1" does not say "WORSHIP". It says, at least in most interpretations, "LOVE". Not really the same thing. And, please don't deign to tell me that my manner of loving God is not as good as yours, or not what I should be doing. Don't you dare tell me that. I don't care if you're a minister in a church I attend, or some other congregation or denomination. You're confusing Faith with Religion. That is a huge difference, and a huge misinterpretation which causes a lot of turmoil in people's lives. No, the “Golden Rule #1″ does not say “WORSHIP”. It says, at least in most interpretations, “LOVE”. Not really the same thing.

And, please don’t deign to tell me that my manner of loving God is not as good as yours, or not what I should be doing. Don’t you dare tell me that. I don’t care if you’re a minister in a church I attend, or some other congregation or denomination. You’re confusing Faith with Religion. That is a huge difference, and a huge misinterpretation which causes a lot of turmoil in people’s lives.

]]> By: Julie http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-578 Julie Mon, 03 May 2010 11:35:22 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-578 Also an MDiv student, though an older one, and also struggling with this. I find that staying involved in my local church has been important, also I work with a spiritual director, and consider that essential. That said, I have lots of dry spots in my devotions. I'm working full time (that is ending soon) and have difficult time finding time for prayer and meditation. On the plus side, having grown up Catholic, without a daily scripture habit, I am finding that I am reading scripture much more now than I have been. I'm making the daily prayer part of my personal goals, and incorporating it in class where I can. That helps a lot. Also an MDiv student, though an older one, and also struggling with this. I find that staying involved in my local church has been important, also I work with a spiritual director, and consider that essential. That said, I have lots of dry spots in my devotions. I’m working full time (that is ending soon) and have difficult time finding time for prayer and meditation.

On the plus side, having grown up Catholic, without a daily scripture habit, I am finding that I am reading scripture much more now than I have been.

I’m making the daily prayer part of my personal goals, and incorporating it in class where I can. That helps a lot.

]]> By: Mike http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-557 Mike Thu, 24 Sep 2009 17:11:46 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-557 Great article and I agree. I fought this a lot in Bible College and know it can rear its ugly head again. Interestingly, you can actually loose sight of God in the Bible…almost seems like a contradiction, but if you have attended BC of Seminary you understand exactly what I am refereeing to. Great article and I agree. I fought this a lot in Bible College and know it can rear its ugly head again. Interestingly, you can actually loose sight of God in the Bible…almost seems like a contradiction, but if you have attended BC of Seminary you understand exactly what I am refereeing to.

]]> By: Craig Beeman http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-481 Craig Beeman Tue, 30 Jun 2009 01:55:10 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-481 I have found that that is very common. I am also a Southwesterner. I find it hard even today, at times, to maintain a regular devotional time with God. I run here and there, from a member's house to a hospital. I could get up earlier. I really need to. It's all about self-discipline. In fact, I think I'll do a bit of it now. Thanks. I have found that that is very common. I am also a Southwesterner. I find it hard even today, at times, to maintain a regular devotional time with God. I run here and there, from a member’s house to a hospital. I could get up earlier. I really need to. It’s all about self-discipline. In fact, I think I’ll do a bit of it now. Thanks.

]]> By: Mark http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2009/09/21/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/comment-page-1/#comment-33 Mark Wed, 02 Jan 2008 16:05:16 +0000 http://seminarysurvivalguide.com/2007/12/14/my-first-semester-shock-or-seminarians-without-chests/#comment-33 Jason, Welcome, friend. We'll have some good time management ideas up soon for you. I did seminary as a single guy, and I have no idea how the married guys managed it. Your story affirms two of my convictions: (1) Life is found in the local church, (2) life is found in sustaining relationships. Hope SSG is helpful to you. If you have any ideas, I'm always open to suggestions. Jason,

Welcome, friend. We’ll have some good time management ideas up soon for you. I did seminary as a single guy, and I have no idea how the married guys managed it.

Your story affirms two of my convictions: (1) Life is found in the local church, (2) life is found in sustaining relationships.

Hope SSG is helpful to you. If you have any ideas, I’m always open to suggestions.

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